UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon Interview with Al-Hayat

Raghida Dergham: You had several meetings in Sharm El Sheikh with foreign ministers of the five permanent members of the Security Council, Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al Faisa, the German Foreign Minister, the Iranian and others. You mentioned discussions touched on Darfur, climate change, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon. With whom did you discuss Lebanon other than with the Iranian Foreign Minister, as you had said you did?

SG: I discussed this with the Saudi Foreign Minister, German Foreign Minister, Secretary of State Rice, and many others. Lebanon was one of the top issues. But most importantly, I discussed with almost everybody the Darfur situation.

Dergham: What now after Nicolas Michel told the Security Council, your own envoy, that it’s a dead end with the Parliamentary process in Lebanon. Did you discuss this with the ministers a Chapter 7 Security Council resolution to establish the tribunal?

SG: No I haven’t discussed Chapter 7 per se. I discussed with Secretary Condoleeza Rice and many other foreign ministers that still it’s necessary for Lebanese people to concentrate on promoting national consensus and I pledged my commitment to help the process.

Dergham: But your own envoy, your Under-Secretary for Legal Affairs, Nicola Michelle, said he did everything and it’s a dead end.

SG: I’m also very much concerned about this, but still the most desirable path for the solution of this issue is to encourage the Lebanese people to do that.

Dergham: How much time do you want to give this path given that Mr. Michelle already conveyed his conclusions to the Security Council in a report this is, one assumes, your report?

SG: It’s not yet my report. It was a report by Mr. Nicolas Michel. I may have to make my own report.

Dergham: Your own report in which you’ll say more time is needed before the Security Council does something? Is that what you mean? Or you’ll say that it’s up to the Security Council now that Nicolas Michel has said that we’ve tried and now it looks like a dead end?

SG: I’ll discuss again with the leaders in the region, Prime Minister Siniora and if possible with the Syrian President (Bachar) Al Asad and members of the Security Council.

Dergham: Tell me what you have in mind, Mr. Secretary General, as far as timing is concerned. Will it be a week, a month, three months, sixth months, another year. What do you have in mind as a time frame?

SG: I know that among some members of the Security Council, they are not looking at a month or several months in timeline. There is no such a time frame at this time. But I know that some patience level is going down because many people believed that the situation seems to be at an impasse.

Dergham: Three of the Security Council permanent members, above all the United States, France and Untied Kingdom, it is said they are ready to move forward towards a Chapter 7 Resolution to establish the Tribunal. Are you against that?

SG: I’m not in a position to say anything about what the Security Council will take on this issue. Of course, I’ll continue to consult with the members of the Security Council. I have yet to see how the situation will develop. I know that there is some movement among certain members of the Security Council.

Dergham: Are you saying it’s premature?

SG: I would not characterize any situation like this.

Dergham: In your discussion with Secretary Rice on Lebanon, did you agree on anything in particular on what to do next as patience is running out as you said?

SG: Basically I explained to her what I am going to do in the future to help Lebanese people form a national reconciliation. I’m continuously going to engage myself.

Dergham: How? What are you going to do exactly? Tell me.

SG: Through meetings or telephone conversations. This is what I’m going to do.

Dergham: You are going to go back to Lebanon?

SG: I have not decided yet. But if it is necessary and if I think it’s the right time, then I’m willing to visit Lebanon again.

Dergham: When you met Russian Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, did he offer particular ideas on Lebanon in your discussions?

SG: I didn’t discuss this matter with him. But I think I discussed with him last Saturday over the telephone about Lebanese situation, with the foreign minister Lavrov.

Dergham: How would you characterize their position?

SG: He was of the view as I recall that, I think he seems to agree to my position at this time.

Dergham: Did you have the feeling that they’ll veto a Chapter 7 Resolution? Is that the feeling?

SG: I told him that I’m going to continue my diplomatic efforts with the leaders in the region.

Dergham: Did you ask him to help out with the issue also with the issue that is also dear to you- the issue of monitoring on the borders, the arms flow from the Syria-Lebanese border. Did you ask him for help?

SG: I explained to him about my meeting with the President Asad of Syria. And he appreciated my diplomatic role.

Dergham: What follow up did you have after the commitments made to you by President Asad? Did you get any any follow-up in implementation?

SG: I spoke with the Syrian Foreign Minister today about this reactivating the border committee which was agreed to between President Asad and myself.

Dergham: And he said?

SG: He said he will take necessary measures.

Dergham: So they have not done anything since you left then? Not so far?

SG: He gave me commitment that he’ll reactivate this border committee with Lebanon.

Dergham: And you also spoke to the Foreign Minister of Iran about Lebanon .Did you ask him to help out in terms of armament- not to arm any militias in Lebanon? What sort of discussion did you have?

SG: On Lebanon, I asked him to play a constructive role, because Iran has influence in Iraq and Lebanon. It would be advisable, desirable for Iranian government to play a constructive role to help ensure peace and security in the region.

Dergham: What did he say? Did he commit that hey will not give arms to Hizbollah?

SG: We didn’t particularly talk about Hizbollah role per se, but he said he would try to play a constructive role.

Dergham: Finally, my last question on Lebanon before the other issues. With the foreign minister of Saudi Arabia, you said you also discussed Lebanon, how did you discuss that?

SG: This is generally in the same line as I told you now.

Dergham: You had said that the Arab peace is “a good starting point for negotiations.” What are you going to do as UN Secretary General to bring Israel to accept this notion?

SG: I have told, when I visited Israel last time, Israeli leaders to seriously consider the Arab peace initiative. I know that there are certain elements to which Israel is opposed. But still there may be some good elements Israel can accommodate so they can build upon. I hope this Arab peace initiative is not just a take it or leave it. I hope that’s not the case.

Dergham: Do you think that it’ll be helpful to make it an active plan in a Security Council resolution?

SG: On what?

Dergham: On this Arab Peace initiative.

SG: I think at this time it’s better leave it to Arabs and Israelis. As you know two weeks ago, Arab Prime Ministers met in Cairo and designated Jordan and Egypt as a contact point to discuss this issue with Israel. So it’s better leave it to Arabs and Israelis to engage in dialogues. If there’s any necessity for a facilitating role, I think there will may be some other countries, the United States, or even the Untied Nations can play certain facilitator’s role.

Dergham: Most people think believe that nothing will happen if it is left up to the two parties, the Arabs and Israelis, and that there indeed is a need for the facilitator. Is the United Nations the right party to play that role? Or should the UN role be second fiddle to a US role?

SG: We do not have not yet any formal agreement or a plan to play a facilitator role per se. What I have been doing until now and what I’ll do in the future will be sort of that kind of role. I think any country can play such kinds of role. US Secretary of State Dr. Rice has been very actively engaging herself engaging in dialogue with the parties concerned.

Dergham: The Quartet will be meeting mid May. What will you bring to the table to make that momentum sustainable? What will you yourself bring to the table? Patience is running out and people are suffering; the erosion of Palestinian land continues and there is a likelihood of future clashes. It is not such a lofty situation, as you know.

SG: It’s really troublesome and sad that many people have been suffering because of this lack of progress in the Middle East peace process. There is a very heightened attention and awareness among the Arab leaders and also on the part of western countries on the united nations that it is now high time for all the parties concerned to engage in serious dialogue to make some progress, tangible progress. This is what we’re now doing and this is what we’ll be talking about during next Quartet meeting. Then we’ll be engaged in another round of informal exchange of views with Arab partners.

Dergham: The Arab countries put out a plan in their Peace Initiative; it’s on the table. It says to the Israelis: let’s negotiate. Israel has not said yes. Your people on the ground report that the Israel goes on with building settlements, with the Wall, with closures. Are you willing to pressure to the Israelis to come to the table?

SG: I’m going to do whatever I need to do whatever I can do to facilitate such peace process. You may remember that when I was in Israel, I told to Prime Minister Olmert and Foreign Minister Livni about the necessity of seriously looking into the plight of the Palestinian refugees because of this constrain and the lack of freedom of movement. Now, United States also has some plans to ease these restrictions on this. This is all ongoing development in that area.

Dergham: But what is your view of Israel’s continuation of settlement building and the wall building - in effect confiscating illegally Palestinian territories?

SG: I told Israeli leaders what I have seen, what I have felt and all this security concerns they may have should be harmoniously balanced by addressing this suffering, the humanitarian sufferings of the Palestinian people.

Dergham: Mr. Secretary General, you are the Secretary General of the United Nations and these are illegal acts against international law. You’re not being critical about them. Why is that?

SG: It’s not that I’m not critical about them. There is a diplomatic way of resolving this issue always involves some sensitivities and subtleties. So you should understand all this when you’re dealing with diametrically opposed parties.

Dergham: But it’s the international reality we’re talking about.

SG: Of course the United Nations and the Security Council have taken all necessary measures. Everybody is aware and during Quartet meetings we have reaffirmed and reminded of Security Council resolution 242, 338 and relevant resolutions.

Dergham: But you’re not willing to take a position on the continuation of building settlements, on the wall, on confiscating Palestinian lands.

SG: I have already said to them what my own position is. I’m not in a position to say everything, what I have talked to the Israelis or the Palestinians to the public. I hope you understand this.

Dergham: I understand but I am asking you about your own position and not about what you told them (The spokeswoman says two questions left only; time has run out).
On Iran and the non- meeting between US Secretary of State and the Foreign Minster of Iran. They were supposed to meet; some people were hoping they would meet. They did not. Is that a bad sign?

SG: It would have been desirable if they had some talks. But I would not mention anything on official positions that they have taken respectively. But in the near future, I hope there will be such an opportunity as they did between the Untied States and Syria.

Dergham: Was that a good thing- that the US Secretary of State met the Syrian Foreign Minister in Sharm El Sheikh??

SG: I think it was encourageable.

Dergham: The Iranians are adamant that they will not suspend enrichment. Is there any other way out? You said that Javier Solana, the EU envoy to talks with Iran, was not optimistic.

SG: Let the European Union and Iran continue their dialogue and negotiation on this matter.

Dergham: On Iraq, there is increased talk about American forces withdrawing from Iraq sooner than later because of Congressional pressures. Are you concerned that the Americans will pull out soon from Iraq? Or do you think that American soldiers in Iraq have become part of the problem?

SG: The security situation in Iraq is still uncertain and volatile. Therefore, until such a time when we can have better perspectiveand prospect of security and stability in Iraq, I understand that it is the position of MNF-particularly the United States -to maintain their military presence there. This is one of the effective means to secure social and political stability there while international community regionally and at an international level continue to help. This is what we did during the last two days. And this effort should be accompanies by Iraqis themselves; by their own effort to promote a political dialogue among themselves.

Dergham: Thank you very much.

SG: Thank you very much.