(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice-over): Which of these stories will you be
talking about tomorrow?
In the name of God: It reads like a gothic horror story. Priests accused
of the ritual murder of a nun over Easter weekend nearly a quarter of a
century ago.
Fallujah again: Two black plumes of smoke rising over the city, fighting
in three separate areas, and this, say the officials, is not the all-out
offensive.
An all-out offensive on president‘s pre-9/11? He testifies to the
commission with the vice president by his side. What is this? Tag team
wrestling? We‘ll ask Pat Buchanan.
And the guy wearing his ex-wife‘s wedding dress. They laughed when he
put all this on eBay. They won‘t be laughing after the thing sold for
nearly $4,000. The man behind the white spot joins us tonight, live.
All that and more now on COUNTDOWN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OLBERMANN: Good evening. It is the most faith-based thing in the history
of humanity. It is the most un-provable and the most influential and
that is not always for the good.
Our fifth story on the COUNTDOWN tonight: In the name of God. A new
debate over the pledge of allegiance, a new protest 11 months in advance
about how Jesus will be depicted on stage, and welter of books to be
published to refute the reinterpretation of the Bible as a kind of
secret decoder ring.
And first, a train wreck of a story from inside a Catholic church in
Toledo, Ohio, utterly repellent and something from which it is almost
impossible to avert your eyes. A popular priest accused of ritualistic
murder of a nun over an Easter weekend and today, suspended by the
church from celebrating the sacraments. Today, told by the diocese, that
it will not pay his legal bills. Our correspondent is Kevin Tibbles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEVIN TIBBLES, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the chilling
Easter weekend murder of a local nun 24 years that stunned Toledo, Ohio,
and remained unsolved until now. More than 200 people attended the
funeral of Sister Margaret Pahl in April of 1980, after she had been
found stabbed some 30 times and strangled. Presiding over her funeral,
Father Gerald Robinson. Father Robinson is now charged with her murder.
CHIEF MIKE NAVARRE, TOLEDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Utilizing new technology
and expert witnesses, the detectives were able to establish probable
cause.
TIBBLES: The body of 71-year-old Sister Margaret was discovered in the
chapel of Toledo‘s Mercy Hospital where she worked as a caretaker, and
the priest as a chaplain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, father.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Father.
TIBBLES: Parishioners are stunned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were all shocked about it because we all loved him
here.
TIBBLES (on camera): Five months ago, Toledo‘s Cold Case Squad decided
to take another look at the murder after a local woman accused Father
Robinson of abusing her as a child in satanic rituals. Investigators say
Sister Margaret may have been killed in a similar ceremony, but would
not elaborate.
(voice-over): When found, the nun was surrounded by the lit candles, her
arms folded across her chest. The Catholic Church, in Toledo, says it is
doing everything it can to assist the investigation.
MICHAEL BILLIAN, TOLEDO CATHOLIC DIOCESE: Certainly, we want to be also
emotionally and spiritually supportive of the Sisters of Mercy, Father
Robinson, and any other people who are involved in this process. And we
await justice to be done.
TIBBLES: Father Robinson has now been arraigned on $200,000 bail.
Kevin Tibbles, NBC News, Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OLBERMANN: David Yonke is the religion editor for Toledo‘s daily
newspaper, “The Blade.” He finds himself covering a murder
investigation.
Mr. Yonke, thanks for your time, tonight.
DAVID YONKE, RELIGION EDITOR, “THE BLADE”: Thanks, Keith, nice to be
here.
OLBERMANN: This boggles the mind. What has been the impact in the
Catholic community in Toledo?
YONKE: Well, the Catholic community is hurting, I mean, this comes
after all these other problems with—you know, the sex scandal, we‘ve had
· you know, donations are down. We‘ve had a lot of problems. We‘ve got a
new bishop here who took over in December and now—you know, a murder
trial involving a priest and a nun.
OLBERMANN: Two amplifications in the story itself, as Kevin Tibbles just
reported it, when this woman came forward to complain that she had been
abused in a ritual involving Father Robinson, what did the church do
when she complained?
YONKE: Well, initially, they put a couple of their own investigators on
it, but they essentially dismissed her testimony. But, one of the people
on the people on the board that heard her testimony ended up forwarding
that to law enforcement authorities on his own.
OLBERMANN: Did he do that without the approval of the church? I‘m trying
to gather just how possibly culpable, at least in extending the
investigation or hindering, in some sense, the investigation the church
might be considered or might be accused of being.
YONKE: Well, certainly there‘s people looking into the possibility of
cover-ups, but—you know, on their behalf, these allegations sounded so
outlandish that—you know, they‘re kind of hard to fathom that priests
were involved in some kind of satanic rituals and all kinds of abuses.
OLBERMANN: The second amplification from Kevin‘s report, “new technology
establishing probable cause.” They‘ve been talking about blood transfer
patterns, is that correct?
YONKE: That‘s right. It‘s the pattern that the—one of the weapon left on
an altar cloth initially they didn‘t see anything there, now 24 years
later, they say they have greater technology in order to link the weapon
to the crime scene.
OLBERMANN: Last question, what happens to Father Robinson, now? Is he
going to be indicted? Is he going to make that bail somehow?
YONKE: Well, parishioners and supporters are raising money. Some are
putting their houses up with the—in order to raise the money for his
bail. He‘ll probably be getting out soon, maybe tomorrow. Then there‘s
expected to be a grand jury indictment on—sometime this week, and then a
hearing on Monday morning.
OLBERMANN: David Yonke, the religion editor of the Toledo “Blade.”
Many thanks you for flushing this out for us, sir.
YONKE: Oh, you‘re welcome.
OLBERMANN: And the fear of God would seem to have been lost if the
accusations are true on Father Robinson, but not on an unnamed suspect
who kidnapped a 77-year-old woman in Gastonia, North Carolina. Edna
Hodge was abducted from her home in that city, this is about 25 miles
west of Charlotte. This by an armed intruder who bound her with duct
tape, demanded $1,000 that he said he needed to get his own mother out
of jail, he then drove her away Ms. Hodge. But, she kept talking to the
man. “She told him,” says her son, “that whatever he did the lord was
watching and he needed to think before he did anything.” The man
evidently thought, Ms. Hodge was found unharmed at a convenience store
half a mile from her home.
Than, she says, is where her abductor let her go.
Continuing the fifth story: The name of God wedging its way not only
into congress, but also into partisan politics. It was Washington state
representative, Jim McDermott‘s turn to lead the House in the pledge of
allegiance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: I pledge allegiance to the flag of
the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: A spokesman for McDermott said he left out the words “under
God” because they are currently under review by the Supreme Court. A
Texas republican had a quite different explanation, Pete Sessions
claiming, McDermott, quote, “embarrassed the House” and proved that
quote, “the liberal wing of the democrat party launched yet another
salvo in its ongoing battle to drive a wedge between Americans and the
values and ideals we hold dear.”
Yeah, like freedom of speech and freedom of worship.
Of course, if the novel, “The Da Vinci Code” were fact, rather than
fiction, all of this would be academic. In the book, the Bible and most
of Christianity is a cover-up for a reality in which Jesus Christ was a
popular, but eminently mortal preacher, that there was a Mrs. Jesus
Christ, better known to history as Mary Magdalene and they had children,
whose descendants are alive and well living in France. The “New York
Times” reports that the novel has inspired no less than 10 rebuttal
books being published this month and next. As our correspondent Jim
Cummins reports for Dallas, foremost of the answers comes from the
pastor of Wesleyan church.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM CUMMINS, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It‘s been a blockbuster
best seller, six million copies sold in 13 months. “The Da Vinci Code,”
Dan Brown‘s fictional thriller with search for the holy grail, with
clues into Da Vinci‘s works and references to alternative Christian
writings, some shocking like Jesus was married and had children. Now the
counter-offensive, as many as 10 books debunking Brown‘s best seller
will hit the book stores in the next two months, many of them by
Christian publishers. Dr. Jim Garlow‘s book criticizing Brown is already
out there.
My concern is simply this, that he blends a lot of historical fact into
the fiction, but then twists the historical facts a great deal and
people who read it are taking it seriously.
CUMMINS: A favorite target? Jesus and Mary Magdalene were husband and
wife.
GARLOW: There‘s no evidence in the scripture anywhere that he was
married to her, as Dan Brown tries to claim, and most assuredly, no such
truth in the notion that she was some kind of a sexual companion of
Jesus, as Dan Brown also tries to claim.
CUMMINS: In the end, Garlow believes “The Da Vinci Code” could help
people become better Christians.
GARLOW: If they do the historical analysis that I hope they‘ll do, then
I believe they‘re going to discover the reality that their new testament
is reliable and that Jesus is truly the son of God, who he claims to be.
Jim Cummins, NBC News, Dallas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OLBERMANN: And the fifth and final component to tonight‘s fifth story,
the faithful may be playing catch-up on “The Da Vinci Code,” but they
will not be when it comes to Jesus in a diaper on stage. As we told you,
night before last, the British production “Jerry Springer, the Opera,”
will move to San Francisco next March and then Broadway next October.
The American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family, and Property,
and the Catholic League now say they will begin, right now, to try to
stop the American production. Largely because in one scene, Jesus is
shown on a talk show wearing a diaper and telling an interviewer, quote,
“actually I‘m a bit gay.” There‘s also the report that the production
contains a few bad words -- 8,000 of them.
COUNTDOWN opening tonight with all things divine. Up next, tonight‘s No.
4 story: Eight years in office, now about eight weeks to get the book
out. The Clinton Memoir, David Gergen will explain its political
ramifications.
And later, we‘ve picked the new flag for the new Iraq. Iraqis have
responded with fury and fire. Not winning the hearts and minds on this
one, evidently, an explanation ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: No. 4 in tonight‘s COUNTDOWN list of big five stories is up
next. Your preview: President Clinton‘s impact on decision 2004, could
it be published or have John Kerry‘s publicity parish. Stand by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: For a time, the political bent of book publishing was
entirely tilted to the right—no longer. Sunday‘s “New York Times”
hardcover nonfiction best seller list has the works—or will have the
works of Richard Clarke at No. 1, John Dean at No. 4, Craig Unger and Al
Franken also in the top 15 with, with only Karen Hughes and Sean Hannity
appearing on the list from the right.
Bob Woodward‘s book is too new to have made that list. Ambassador Joe
Wilson‘s comes out next week and then the big kid gets out of school.
Our fourth story in the COUNTDOWN, Bill Clinton‘s memoir, “My Life” will
hit bookshelves in late June, which is especially interesting, given
that he has not finished writing it yet and it‘s even more interesting
because the people presumably most interested in buying it, desperately
wanted to see that book hit the shelves by then.
Random House‘s canop (ph) in print is going for a first run of a million
and a half copy, 50 percent more than they made at Simon and Schuster of
Clinton‘s wife‘s book a year ago. But, it‘s not the volume that‘s the
story, it‘s the timing. David Gergen‘s own book “Eyewitness to Power” is
no longer on the top seller list, but it still rates four and a half
stars out of five among the reviewers at amazon.com, and we should note
also it‘s available still in paperback, digital, hardcover, and large
print form.
David, good evening.
DAVID GERGEN, AUTHOR “EYEWITNESS TO POWER”: Hi. Thank you for the
publicity.
OLBERMANN: You‘re very welcome. So, about this other book by
President Clinton,
GERGEN: Sure.
OLBERMANN: The democratic belief that the release date will be in late
June and the premise that he would have overshadowed, to some
significant degree, the Kerry campaign or the convention if it had been
later than that. Do you buy that?
GERGEN: Well, I think there was some danger that had it come out in
September or October, it would have sucked a lot of the oxygen out of
the Kerry campaign. But, I think any fears that the democratic fears
about having the book come out now during the campaign, say in June,
when it‘s now going to be published are overblown. I actually think,
Keith, that the Bill Clinton book is going to help the democrats, I tell
you why: It‘s going to give Bill Clinton a lot of air time. John Kerry
needs some surrogates; he needs some people speaking up for him, he
doesn‘t have that the way that President Bush does, he has Cheney and
everybody else out there. And, there‘s nobody in this country better at
speaking for the democratic cause than Bill Clinton and he‘ll—you can be
sure he‘s going to be on your show, he‘ll be on other television shows.
He‘ll not only be defending his presidency, but telling us why we need a
democratic president. So, I think that in the long run, Bill Clinton‘s
book is very likely to be a great help to the John Kerry campaign.
OLBERMANN: Yes, I was confused by that too, in the “New York Times”
story of about two weeks ago, they quoted an unidentified close
associate of Kerry as saying, actually, “if it comes out any time before
the election, it‘s not particularly good for us because he takes up a
lot of oxygen,” and I read that and thought that‘s kind of insulting to
everybody, isn‘t it? It implies that people can‘t watch a Bill Clinton
book tour and vote for John Kerry at the same time, and it also suggests
on the other side of the equation, that some people would not vote for
George Bush unless they were to be reminded in the first person how much
they used to hate Bill Clinton. It‘s kind of a cynical view, even in a
cynical time.
GERGEN: Well, we do live in a cynical time, there‘s no question about
that. I think it‘s just wrong-headed and you can understand when you‘re
running the campaign, like—such as the Kerry campaign, you want to
control everything, it‘s really—just as the White House would like to
control what‘s going on in Iraq. You don‘t like to have things affecting
your campaign that are beyond your control. But even so, I think if you
look at the Al Gore campaign, of four years ago, he ran away from Bill
Clinton and I think it was a big mistake for him and he paid the price
for it. Instead of wrapping himself around the Clinton economic record,
the jobs, the prosperity—you know, he distanced himself and, I think, he
failed to mobilize democratic voters.
Bill Clinton has found his voice in the last months of his
ex-presidency. He is now sort of in his stride and he has the capacity
to write the most interesting memoirs we‘ve had from any president in
years. Most of these memoirs, as you know, are pretty dry, even turgid.
I think he has the capacity to write a really terrifically interesting
memoirs, and more importantly, as he gets on television, he is going to
have a lot of air time to present the case of why a return to the
democratic party is a good—is in the country‘s interests and that‘s—I
can‘t tell you how much I think that John Kerry misses having a
surrogate operation for him. He‘s having to take on—every time Cheney
goes out, he has to—John Kerry has to go out there and do all the hard
labor himself. He needs someone like Bill Clinton out there for him.
OLBERMANN: You mentioned the content of the book itself and how
interesting potentially it could be.
GERGEN: Yes.
OLBERMANN: Just out of the blue, I‘m asking this. What would you read
that book for? What would you like to see Bill Clinton describe?
GERGEN: I—he has one of the most interesting minds in American public
life and he has a—I used to tell him—you know, Mr. President, when you
retire, if you ever want to become a commentator, you‘ll sweep all the
rest of us away because you have such insight into these things and you
have—he has almost a journalistic take on things, but it‘s—with a lot of
depth and subtly and I would—you know, the—his editor, Robert Gottlieb,
has already said, this book is terribly interesting. He calls it “an
astonishment.”
I‘d bet that the—this book us going to—if he‘s capable of writing. I
don‘t know what he‘s written and he‘s—of course he‘s furiously writing
away. This being Bill Clinton, we‘re going to have the last draft about
five minutes before it‘s—before it goes to press. But, he‘s capable of
running things that are terribly insightful.
OLBERMANN: And as you said, journalistic. The one in-person conversation
I ever had with him, he recited to me the list of the 1955 Brooklyn
Dodgers roster from first to last. When I told him he left one man off,
he wrote the man‘s name down. I‘m sure it will come up somewhere.
David Gergen, from “U.S. News and World Report,” Kennedy School of
Government at Harvard, and we mention again, “Eyewitness to Power,”
still available.
GERGEN: Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Thank you sir. Take care.
Tonight‘s No. 4 story behind us, right around the corner, “Oddball” and
yet another guy trying to escape the cops. The nightly COUNTDOWN car
chase score card is ahead.
And later, one man‘s parting shot towards his ex-wife. He thought first
of getting even, then he thought of trying to get rich. He may have
gotten both. The eBay wedding dress guy joins us live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: We rejoin you just in time to pause the COUNTDOWN and take a
much-needed adventure into the land of big puffy sheep and hero
kangaroos and guys on the run from the law. Let‘s play “Oddball.”
And we begin tonight in Austin County, Texas, with the COUNTDOWN car
chase of the day. Obviously, the driver of the runaway pickup truck was
not watching last night because this guy won‘t pull over. Checking the
“Oddball Scoreboard,” once again, we see it‘s cops: 40, guys who think
they can escape the cops: zip.
And the streak is alive, thanks in no small part to the police advantage
called spike strips. The driver was thrown from the vehicle during the
rollover; he is in fair condition, lucky to be alive. He‘ll have plenty
of time to contemplate all that where he‘s going: The big house!
Meanwhile, on the other side of the globe, it‘s run away sheep that
they‘re worried about. You may recall the saga of “Shrek” on the loose
for six years and unshorn. A New Zealand Marino ram looked like a cloud
come to earth. So popular is sheep sheering in kiwi land, so popular did
“Shrek” become that they televised his hair cut. You are looking live as
the world famous barber to the sheep, champion sheerer David Fagan cut
off the 14 inch thick, 60-pound fleece; the wool to be sold to benefit a
pediatric cancer charity. Oh wait, they got David Fagan to do the
cutting and not Harry Sheerer?
From the small island nation to its big island nation neighbor to the
west, and for the first time ever, the Australian SPCA has given its
Animal Valor Award to a kangaroo. As we told you last September, when
her owner, farmer Len Richards, was knocked out by a falling tree limb,
Lulu came to the rescue, squawking for half an hour until his nephew
investigated, guarding Richards in the interim. Today Richards said of
his roo, “I‘d be pushing up daisies if it weren‘t for Lulu. I‘m over the
moon that she‘s being recognized as a hero.” I didn‘t make the quote up.
Lulu promptly accepted her Animal Valor Award and then threw it over the
fence in front of the capitol steps.
COUNTDOWN picks up with our No. 3 story, next. Your preview: A fighting
continues in Fallujah, critics attacking coalition tactics. The defense
secretary has a heated response to those questioning the U.S. choice of
targets.
And later, what did the president know and when did he know it? Pat
Buchanan joins us for the preview Mr. Bush‘s joint appearance with the
vice president, tomorrow, before the 9/11 Commission.
Those stories ahead, first here are COUNTDOWN‘s “Top 3 Newsmakers” of
this day:
No. 3 Mike Rickert pitched a perfect game for Bowler High School in
Wisconsin against Iola high, last Thursday, April 22. No big deal,
except that his father, John Rickert, had also thrown a perfect game,
also for Bowler High School, also against the Iola, also on April 22 in
1982. And then, it was also a Thursday.
Also, No. 2: Druzhba has become the subject of Moscow‘s newest public
statue. Who is Druzhba? Druzhba was the top processed cheese snack of
the soviet era. Well, it‘s either that or put one of the statues of
Trotsky back up.
And No. 1: Sharon Luck, the dumb criminal of the week, robs a bank in
Dallas, puts the money in her purse, goes directly to another bank to
open a savings account, opens the purse in order to hand the money to
the teller and that‘s when the pack attached to the money detonates and
covers her in pink dye. Kaboom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Another day, another deadline passed in Fallujah. And as
insurgents in Iraq‘s most volatile city failed to heed yet another
ultimatum to hand in their weapons, the cease-fire looked and sound a
lot more like ceaseless fire.
In our third story tonight, the fighting also continue on other
battlefields, from the new Iraqi flag that Iraqis are already burning to
the mosque that is not really a mosque. As the war heats up, the clash
over meaning is intensifying. Before the stories symbolism, though, the
hard facts on the ground.
A second straight day of fighting sending clouds of smoke spiraling into
the sky above Fallujah and the barrage of firepower did not cease when
the sun went down, U.S. warplanes dropping as many as 10 500-pound bombs
on that city before 300,000 souls. While U.S. military commanders
insisted these were purely defensive responses, pleas for restraint came
from as high up as U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.
But Donald Rumsfeld brushed aside such criticism today with his own
defensive responses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Here‘s a wonderful picture that
just give you a little sense of, this is the mosque in An Najaf. And you
can see they have all kinds of religious instruments called
rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47s. That‘s what they do in their
mosques. So that isn‘t in the paper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: And another paper Mr. Rumsfeld certainly does not approve of,
the new wanted poster floating around Iraq, and two of the military‘s
top commanders featured as wanted men, and the reward for their capture
said to be $15 million.
One man who may not be wanted for much longer there is Ahmad Chalabi.
Our chief correspondent, Lisa Myers, reporting now that the organization
headed by the Iraqi who has had the wholehearted endorsement of many
top-ranking Pentagon officials is now under investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA MYERS, NBC CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):
Members of the Iraqi national Congress and its leader, Ahmad Chalabi,
were airlifted into southern Iraq the day Saddam‘s government fell.
Chalabi was the president‘s guest at the State of the Union. Even today,
the INC gets $340,000 a month from the Pentagon to feed the U.S.
intelligence information. But NBC News has learned that members of the
group are now under investigation by Iraqi police in Baghdad,
allegations of abduction, robbery, stealing 11 Iraqi government
vehicles, assaulting police by firing on them during the search. This
Iraqi police official says one doctor claims, he was kidnapped at
gunpoint.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They found him, took him to an
unknown place, and after he got back to his house, he discovered they
took $20,000. We caught the suspects and they said they were from the
INC.
MYERS: Iraqi authorities tell NBC that three INC operatives are under
arrest and an arrest warrant has been issued for the INC‘s chief of
intelligence. The INC confirms its offices were searched six times and
11 cars seized. But officials say they‘ve done nothing illegal.
MUDHAR SHAWKAT, IRAQI NATIONAL CONGRESS: There is something going on
which basically is what it appears to me is trying to put political
pressure on the INC for what one reason or another.
MYERS (on camera): All of this comes in the wake of findings that key
intelligence on weapons of mass destruction provided by Chalabi‘s group
was false, perhaps even fabricated.
(voice-over): In fact, the former head of the weapons hunt questions why
a group that provided—quote—“fabricated information” is still on the
U.S. payroll.
DAVID KAY, FORMER CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Once taken, excused,
twice taken, you‘re an idiot. I think we‘re now in the point of we‘re
really an idiot.
MYERS: Tonight, a Pentagon spokesman says he knows nothing about the
police investigation, but that the $4 million taxpayer dollars going to
Chalabi‘s group already is being reviewed.
Lisa Myers, NBC News, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OLBERMANN: Somebody did not review the matter of something selected by
the Iraqi Governing Council. It would not seem like much of an issue.
Then again, how many controversy a year do we have over this symbol in
this country?
The new national Iraqi flag. A crowd into the besieged city of Fallujah
set fire to a replica of the new banner today. In the northern city of
Mosul, more than 1,000 protesters turned out to denounce the flag. The
complaint? The colors, blue, light blue, yellow and white. The blue
stripes on the bottom were meant to represent the country‘s two great
rivers, the Tigris and the Euphrates, the yellow the color symbolizing
Iraq‘s Kurdish minority.
It is that light blue in the crescent that‘s the problem. Iraqis see it
and see the light blue of the Israeli flag. There‘s also the question of
what is not there. Nearly every Arabic nation has some combination of
red, black and green in their flag, but not on the new Iraqi one.
For some insight into why this new flag is already such a flammable
symbol, we‘re joined now by Raghida Dergham, a senior correspondent for
the London-based Arabic newspaper “Al-Hayat.”
Raghida, good evening.
RAGHIDA DERGHAM, NBC FOREIGN AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good evening to you.
OLBERMANN: Well, I assume that the light blue is like President Bush
talking three years ago about a crusade in Afghanistan, inadvertent,
uninformed. But I gather that it is not being read quite that innocently
in the Middle East.
DERGHAM: Not from that point of view.
It resembles the dictate of an occupation that wants an
acceptance of Israel and an imitation of Israel in Iraq. And that‘s how
it is perceived. Now, there is a sober argument as why not to rush with
the flag, which is that the interim government is supposed to take over
from the occupation on June 30. And it is really, it is only
understandable that people should want to wait until such an interim
government takes office. And at that point, yes, talk about a flag.
But I wanted to add that they‘re talking now about making the crescent
blue.
OLBERMANN: Will that improve the situation or is there some hidden
problem that no one has researched in this country or in the interim
body in Iraq that will then come up and bite us all once again?
DERGHAM: Well, listen, on a serious note here, I think it is beyond the
flag itself.
I think they fear, many of the Iraqis fear that there is an occupation
and that the flag under occupation is a statement. And I think that it
is a rejection of what the United States is trying to tell the Iraqis,
no matter what these days. There is a lot of anger. And, as you know
from what is happening in Fallujah, thing are not going that well.
OLBERMANN: And from the symbolism back to the reality, and in Fallujah
particularly. The military analysts in the last few days have been big
on the idea, have been hitting again and again the idea that in Fallujah
in particular, if major firepower were not used by the coalition forces
in those sets of circumstances that obtain there, that Iraqis themselves
would have lost respect for the United States.
I‘m wondering what your take is on this. Is this another cross-cultural
bad assumption train wreck like the flag or is there some truth to that
idea?
DERGHAM: Oh, it could be another spin.
Look, there is a need to step back from all this and see what would work
for the United States and for Iraq. I don‘t think the military solution
in Fallujah or in Najaf and Karbala, the holiest places for the Shiites,
is going to really bring us closer to a peaceful solution or to an end
of occupation.
I fear that more of the military confrontation will take us into a
really bad situation for the United States and for the Iraqis. Look, the
end of occupation can be done peacefully if it is done soberly and
people think about it. What is really frightening everyone right now is
that maybe there is an intention to escalate and therefore lose the
option of making a peaceful Iraq and lose the option of ending the
occupation and the fear here is of course to get into the quagmire of
Iraq.
OLBERMANN: Raghida Dergham, the senior correspondent for “Al-Hayat,”
many thanks for joining us tonight.
DERGHAM: Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Hearts and minds and flags, the third story on the COUNTDOWN
tonight.
Up next, No. 2, testimony from two, the president and the vice president
answering questions about 9/11 together. Then later on, it‘s a man,
baby. This stunning bridal wear model we first told you about last night
will join us live.
All that head, but, first, here are COUNTDOWN‘s top three sound bites of
this day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: Chicken hawk. If anyone is
curious about what a chicken hawk is, I‘ve got a definition right here
on this placard. We see the chicken in a uniform with medals.
QUESTION: So what‘s Gary Sheffield‘s review of Puff Daddy‘s—“P. Diddy‘s”
debut on Broadway?
GARY SHEFFIELD, PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYER: Well, I was asking my
wife, I said where is he reading from? And she said, no, he has to
remember this. I said, really?
QUESTION: So two thumb up?
SHEFFIELD: I would give him four.
DOLLY KELTON, 97 YEARS OLD: They fingerprinted me. And I said, is this
going to be on my record forever? And they said, no. But I do doubt
that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: The double dose tomorrow at the White House, as both the
president and the vice president will answer questions together from the
9/11 Commission. Politics and policy—our second story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: It says something about the president of the United States.
What exactly probably depends on your political orientation.
But on this eve of Mr. Bush‘s closed-door testimony before the 9/11
Commission, testimony he will give with Vice President Dick Cheney
seated at his side, White House spokesman Scott McClellan actually felt
compelled to tell reporters that he expects Mr. Bush to answer most of
the questions, not Mr. Cheney. Gee, thanks.
Our No. 2 story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, the president, the vice
president and the commission. They will begin at 9:30 a.m. Eastern
before all 10 commissioners. They will not be under oath. Their comments
will not be recorded, nor will there be a stenographer present.
Commission members will be permitted to take notes. Mr. Bush is expected
to have White House counsel Alberto Gonzales with him and perhaps other
White House officials as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I look forward to giving
the commissioners a chance to question both of us. And it is—it will be
an ample—it will be a good opportunity for these people to help write a
report that hopefully will help future presidents deal with terrorist
threats to the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Spokesman McClellan reiterated the point, saying, this is not
an adversarial process. And later on, this isn‘t something where it‘s a
game of gotcha.
Well, that would be a first in this completely political year.
Joining me now, former presidential candidate, adviser and speechwriter,
MSNBC‘s own Pat Buchanan.
Good evening, Pat.
PAT BUCHANAN, NBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Mr. Bush and Mr. McClellan are kidding about this, right? Do
they expect anyone to believe that they‘re not expecting a game of
gotcha, when Mr. Bush is going to be accompanied by Mr. Cheney and the
White House counsel and other staffers and basically everybody except
his mom and dad?
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: Look, I do believe this.
I do believe the president of the United States is going to—probably, he
and Cheney have talked and the president says, I will be answering all
the questions that are directed to me, Dick. And I do not want to you
step in unless you feel there‘s some vital necessity to add something
because we don‘t want the perception coming out of here, which is the
perception going in, that I‘m taking a test and I have got a straight-A
student sitting beside me who can help me. We don‘t want that impression
left.
And I think the president will answer most of the questions. He is not
under much pressure, Keith. He is not under oath. It is a closed
session. There‘s no recording made of it. They got note-takers on both
sides. So I think the president is not under great pressure.
OLBERMANN: What then do you expect the focus will be? The questions,
will go in what direction? Is the president vulnerable in any area, and
how will he be attacked and defended by those 10 commissioners?
BUCHANAN: Here‘s how—what I would do with the president.
I would say, Mr. President, you‘re in that schoolroom when you heard the
second plane went in there. Your immediate thoughts as you were being
taken out, going to Barksdale Air Force Base, who did you think did it?
And did the August 6 memo come to mind, that this was probably bin Laden
or al Qaeda. And if he said no, I would say, have you not focused on
that and didn‘t you get the message there that this was the real threat?
So I would try to find out why it was the president did not
instinctively think of al Qaeda and bin Laden. And then I would pursue
that line of questioning.
OLBERMANN: After this is over tomorrow, Pat, is this going to look like
the scene from the movie “Airplane,” where the reporters run so fast
into the phone booths that the booths fall over? Are we going to get
heavy leakage from the commissioners, both Republican and Democrat?
BUCHANAN: Every reporter worth his salt has got his guy who is going to
call him or whom he‘s going to call. And you have got White House aides.
And they‘re going to be putting out the word that the president was
brilliant, he was crisp, he was on top of his game. He was in control.
It was the president answering all the questions. That will be coming
right out of there.
And if our reporter don‘t get it, they ought to be talked to.
OLBERMANN: And we‘re going to have you talk to them, too.
(LAUGHTER)
OLBERMANN: MSNBC‘s political analyst Pat Buchanan, as always, sir,
thanks for your insights.
BUCHANAN: Good night. Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Good night.
That‘s tomorrow. Today, not the president, but his policies questioned
and before the Supreme Court, the question, whether holding American
citizens as enemy combatants is unconstitutional. Right now, two
American are in military detention, Yaser Hamdi, captured with the
Taliban in Afghanistan, and Jose Padilla, arrested in Chicago, accused
of planning to set off a radioactive dirty bomb.
Both have been indefinitely imprisoned in a Naval brig, no access to
lawyers, nor U.S. courts. At the Supreme Court today, justices
questioning the indefinite nature of the detention and several implied
that some kind of military tribunal might be an appropriate venue for
suspects to proclaim their innocence while not jeopardizing national
security.
And now not national security, but national obsessions, the stories of
celebrity entertainment, glamour, glitz and svitz (ph). We call it
“Keeping Tabs.”
And there won‘t be dirty words. But if the decency police want a new
target, how about the promotion for ABC‘s “20/20”? Friday‘s program, the
first incidentally of the May sweeps period, will feature five couples,
each vying for the privilege of adopting the baby of an unmarried
16-year-old girl from Akron. The network promoted the show much in the
manner of a reality TV program, calling it “Be My Baby.” Producers claim
it is really a documentary about process, not some sort of “Survivor” in
diapers.
But that‘s only one of two ABC Friday night programs getting slammed.
The decision to have Ted Koppel read allowed the names of more than 500
Americans killed in the war in Iraq during “Nightline” was today
characterized by “The Washington Post”‘s TV columnist as a—quote—
“content-free stunt designed to tug at our heartstrings and bag a big
number on the second night of the May ratings race.”
“Nightline” producers claimed they had no idea that sweeps were under
way. Wow. If that‘s true, here‘s free advice from a colleague. The
camera that‘s on is the one with the red light on it.
Tonight‘s No. 1 story is next. This man will join us live next, unless
he runs away.
First, here are COUNTDOWN‘s top two photos of this day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Finally to the top of the COUNTDOWN.
And we are proud to say that we earnestly believe that we were the first
national television newscast to bring you the story of the man in the
wedding dress on eBay. Of course it wasn‘t just a wedding dress. It was
his ex-wife‘s wedding dress. He was trying to raise enough money to get
some tickets to go see the Seattle Mariners play a few baseball games,
maybe some beer.
But when bidding closed at 6:37 p.m. Eastern daylight time today, the
price it reached was $3,850. The page hits had exceeded 5.8 million.
Now, the dress might be worth something, but it seems most of the price
owes to the sell, not only singular job of modeling, but also the
commentary, which includes priceless observations about the ex, such as:
“Thank the Lord we didn‘t have kids. If they would have turned out like
her or her family, I would have slit my wrists.”
And then there‘s addendum about the publicity and e-mails the seller has
received: “Most were thanking me for the laugh. You‘re entirely welcome.
Five years of misery was well worth the hardy guffaw that was my
pleasure to give you.”
Until now, he has been known only as the guy wearing his ex-wife‘s
wedding dress, but now we can introducer you to man behind the taffeta,
Larry Star of Seattle, Washington.
Mr. Star, good evening.
LARRY STAR, SOLD EX-WIFE‘S WEDDING DRESS: Yo, dog. That is my Randy
Jackson impression.
OLBERMANN: Very nice. And may I say that is a lovely dress you are
wearing tonight.
STAR: Thank you. Thank you very much.
OLBERMANN: What were you expecting when you did this? I‘m assuming you
didn‘t expect you would get five wedding proposals out of the deal.
STAR: There were a lot more. I get over 6,000 or 7,000 e-mails. And a
lot of those were not only wedding proposals, but sexual trysts as well,
so, crazy. There‘s a lot of crazy Americans out there.
OLBERMANN: Something to spend the $3,850 bucks on, obviously.
STAR: Obviously, yes.
OLBERMANN: I have to ask this one, too. Among those e-mails, have you
heard from the ex by any chance?
STAR: Not heard from the ex, but I pretty much expect to. So...
(LAUGHTER)
OLBERMANN: We will just leave it there.
STAR: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
OLBERMANN: Somewhere in here, there had to have been a publicity tipping
point. I was just going to say here, the pictures on eBay, you put a
white dot covering your own face to protect your identity. And, on the
other hand, you went on “The Today Show” this morning and you‘re now
primping your hair. So the anonymity boat has sailed, my friend.
STAR: Hey, hey.
OLBERMANN: When did this, as they say, start to get good to you?
(CROSSTALK)
STAR: I just want to say, KISS unmasked. You know what I‘m saying?
OLBERMANN: OK.
STAR: They had a run. They unmasked. Here I am, unmasked.
You know what I hate? I hate my hair.
OLBERMANN: Yes.
STAR: I look like one of the lost Bee Gees, Larry Gibb.
OLBERMANN: You have been wearing the dress way too long, I think.
STAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
OLBERMANN: It may be a little tight around the neck and it‘s cutting off
the oxygen.
What do you do for a living? I am assuming that you are not on the
modeling staff of “Modern Bride” magazine. At least you weren‘t before
now.
STAR: Yes, I will be, right? There‘s a good gig coming up.
OLBERMANN: Yes.
STAR: I‘m a computer geek during the day and I play in a band at night.
Guitar.
OLBERMANN: OK, so, now it was—on eBay, it was listed as $18,500 as the
high bid. And then the thing started to drop today. Did that concern
you? How did all that work? Were those all phony bids that were thrown
in?
STAR: Yes.
It reached 99 -- it maxed out, the counter, at eBay yesterday, at $99
million, believe it or not.
(LAUGHTER)
STAR: And so eBay security came in and took off and weeded through the
ones, that bids that seemed that they were legitimate and after more
going through—eBay was terrific. They worked with my constituent all day
long. And my buddy Brannon (ph) and eBay, they just were fantastic.
OLBERMANN: So, the upshot is this is, it was a $1,200 dress or, as you
write, looks like a $1,200 shower curtain, and it sells for $3,850. Are
you taking that $2,650 as pure profit or are you thinking of it as
payment for what appears to have been an absolutely joyful marriage?
(LAUGHTER)
STAR: Yes, it‘s profit. I think maybe put a down payment on a motorcycle
to get the M‘s game. You know what I‘m saying?
OLBERMANN: Yes, I see. And I am presuming you get a picture of the woman
who bought that dress to see if it looks better on her.
(LAUGHTER)
STAR: Yes. Yes. True.
OLBERMANN: Larry Star, it is better to have loved and lost than never to
have loved at all, but apparently it‘s best to have loved and lost and
then humiliated and profited from the ex on national TV.
Congratulations.
STAR: Thank you very much.
OLBERMANN: Thank you for your time.
STAR: Bye.
OLBERMANN: It‘s wonderful.
Before we leave you, the No. 1 thing you also need to know about
tonight‘s No. 1 story. Larry‘s dress seem pricey to you? No. The most
expensive wedding dress ever, the bride from Brooklyn who walked down
the aisle in last year in this gown worth $300,000, made of 50 years of
silk, studded with 300 karat diamonds, 3,000 Swarovski crystals. And,
presumably, we‘re going to have another four years before we see it on
eBay.
All right, let‘s recap the five COUNTDOWN stories, the ones we think
you‘ll be talking about tomorrow.
No. 5, heaven and hell on Earth, from a priest charged with murdering a
nun, to a kidnapped woman scaring off her attacker by using God as a
witness, to Christian protests over the Jerry Springer opera that does
open here until next March.
Four, the new book from Bill Clinton. He has not even finished writing
it yet, but Democrats are happy with the release date · happier—June,
late June, earlier enough they think not to overshadow their convention
and the election, and our guest, David Gergen, saying it may actually
help Kerry‘s campaign.
Three, insurgency in Iraq, U.S. forces on the offensive for the second
day in Fallujah, while protesters in that town turn their fiery anger
from the American flag to a new Iraqi one that they say looks like the
Israeli flag. Two, a double appearance before the 9/11 Commission
tomorrow. President Bush and Vice President Cheney will both sit down
for a private session answering questions about the attacks. It will not
be recorded. It will not be transcribed. It will not be on the record.
No. 1, Larry Star, who sold his ex-wife‘s wedding dress on eBay for the
grand total of $3,850. And he looked just great in it, didn‘t he?
Slimmed his hips.
That‘s COUNTDOWN. Thanks for being part of it. I‘m Keith Olbermann.
Good night and good luck.
END
